Waiting Wednesday

Posted February 21, 2012

Sunday afternoon we all went out and saw "The Secret World of Arrietty". It's the new Studio Ghibli film and sadly, I was disappointed (which was surprising because usually the movies out of that studio are SO GOOD!). To perk myself up I took my Addition-Elle gift card over to their store and tried to use it, but alas, the spring clothes just aren't doing it for me and I didn't purchase a thing. There were a couple of cute tops but nothing I'd pay $40 for. So I'm waiting for the summer stuff to come out and will hopefully score some cute dresses and skirts to wear with the baby bump, and after.

What are YOU waiting for? Tell us about it in the comments!

(I *almost* bought this top but decided to wait. I'm so indecisive.)

Some Things Never Change

Posted February 19, 2012

Waaaay back when I began my fat acceptance journey I was also a regular at a very busy forum called GaiaOnline. I started a thread in the Lifestyle Discussion part of the site on Fat Acceptance and HAES. In the last...year or so? me and the hubs pretty much left the site because life was happening and Gaia was getting kinda boring. I dropped most of my threads and disappeared, except for the FA thread. I popped in on that one a few times, maybe once a month, and then stopped posting there as well.  On a whim the other night I logged in and wouldn't you know it? The thread was still alive! And NOT taken over by fat-haters! I haven't seen any of my old regulars but I seem to have picked up some new ones, haes-savvy ones, and downright sassy ones. I love it. I'm impressed, and honestly, a little touched. It's been four years that thread's been going, spreading the FA/HAES message on a site geared to teens, people as we all know who REALLY need that extra self confidence boost.

For a taste, here's what my front page looks like (I'm pretty sure the first image banner is something I edited in Paint from another FA/HAES blog in the Fatosphere. If you know who's it is, or where I got it, please let me know so I can credit!)


This thread is for the support of fat acceptance and health at EVERY size; that means healthy fat/thin/inbetween people. Please at least attempt to read all of the first page. This is not a thread for asking for help with weight loss or diet talk. Out of respect for people with eating disorders, or who are trying to recover, or are recovered, we ask that there be no diet talk.

This thread is not for debating whether or not diets work or why fat people 'should' diet or exercise more or for how fat people are so fat because they're lazy gluttenous slobs
This thread is definately not for pointing out all the supposed health risks of being overweight or obese; if you want to talk about that take it somewhere else. Posters who insist on doing nothing but the above will be banned without warning.


This is a thread for talking about our culture's obsession with ultra-thin and the impossibly beautiful and why people think that fat people should change. Here's a clue; they don't have too.

This is a thread for talking about why you love your body and what you love about it.

This thread is not meant to exclude thin people; I choose to focus on the fat angle because I'm seen as fat and fat discrimination and harassment is much more prevelent than that against thin people. See "Why FAT Acceptance" below.

This thread does not tolerate fat bashing in any way shape or form; don't like fat people or can't wrap your mind around the idea of a fat, healthy, happy person? Don't post. Any posts bashing fat people will be reported as breaking the rules of the thread and as flaming or trolling, depending on the context. Then I'll put you on my ignore list so you can't come back, again, without warning.

This thread is meant to be a SAFE SPACE for people of ALL sizes so any thin-bashing/skinny bitch comments will also not be tolerated.

I don't mind you having an opinion of your own, but this isn't the place for it if it's negative towards fat people. The same rules apply for any other acceptance threads; you can't walk into a gay/black/Jewish/Christian acceptance/discussion thread and start bashing the people who are posting there. It's obviously trolling and will be treated as such here.

Aaaand then there's a MEGA PILE of links, most of which are now up here at the blog in the Links of Importance section. Sadly, we still sometimes get the occasional troll, concern or otherwise, despite the rainbow text which are the rules of the thread. Some people just fail at reading, or think probably that if THEY just tell me how unhealthy/awful/ugly it is to be fat and how I should just put down the hamburger and go for a jog, that they're special and will get through to me and Fix My Life. Yeah, I don't think so.

This has been your Monday trip down memory-lane.

The End: Rebuilding

Posted February 16, 2012

The emotional fall-out from my depression, and later the abortion, wasn't just mine, it was Ryan's as well. Many things are triggering for me now, like hospitals, and I avoid movies or books with scenes of childbirth (I can't read Marley and Me without crying, and I've never seen Juno). There are lines I can't cross, scars that I carry both physically and mentally that will be with me for the rest of my life. However, something Anne Bishop writes in "The Shadow Queen" struck me when I first read it and has stayed with me since. Lucivar, a very powerful character and former slave, is speaking with a much weaker character, Blade, who was once tortured and abused. Blade tells Lucivar that he's not right, as in, not right in the head. And Lucivar replies "No, you're not. You have scars and they run deep. When a man has scars like that, there are boundaries he can't cross, lines he has to draw to keep himself whole. But those boundaries aren't as small as you might think, and a man can choose to live safe or he can choose to live right up to those lines. He might slip over a line every now and then, and that will hurt like a wicked bitch, but he might decide that what he gains will be worth the price." (Bishop, 186)

We had a lot of conversations, after a while, about maybe having another child, but it was always a touchy subject. I wanted to know for sure if we were ever going to actually try again and Ryan was much more comfortable with just seeing what happened and going with the flow. Gabe was a surprise, but a welcome one. We handled it with as much grace as we could with the help of our family and friends. The second time around was a nightmare disaster. I fell back into depression, more because of how badly I had hurt Ryan than anything else. Abortion doesn't cause depression, but not having the support of the people you love sure can, and living in a society where this legal medical procedure is so stigmatized sure doesn't help either. Depression seems to be strongly linked to guilt with me, and I cannot stand to hurt the people I love. But when hurting someone you love is the only alternative to breaking away from your self, sometimes it's the lesser evil. To commemorate the year of 2008 I got my tattoo, which reads "To Thine Own Self Be True" across my shoulders. It felt good to etch that into my skin, for the pain to assuage in some small way the hurt I'd caused and still felt. Something else that helped a lot was a book titled "The Pagan Book of Living And Dying" by my favorite Pagan author, Starhawk. It had sections within it specifically dealing with unwanted pregnancy and abortion and I'm pretty sure I still have them saved on my computer from scans I made thanks to a friend.

So where does this all leave me today? I have a good grasp where my boundaries are, which ones are set in stone and which are fluid. My experiences have made me into a staunch prochoice and body acceptance ally, and given me much more real expectations about labour and delivery. Ryan is preparing for whatever happens and is planning on keeping a keen eye out for any trouble post-delivery, and I wont hesitate (so much) to say anything if I start that slide. We're very much hoping to avoid another c-section by going with a midwife (Lillian has attended over 800 births with very few ceseareans) but mentally I'm preparing myself to go there if we have too. At the same time, I'm also trying to forgive myself for all the messes in the past. The original c-section was not my fault. Technically we did everything right, Gabe just wouldn't turn. My IUD failed me-a 1% chance that led to so much misery. You play the cards you're dealt, and I did what I felt was best. I can't help but wonder "What's next?" Hopefully nothing but an uneventful pregnancy with an equally boring labour and delivery, and quiet recovery at home where I can actually enjoy the first few weeks of the new baby's life. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst. Live up to the line and sometimes step over it, because I know that the pain has been worth it. If it wasn't for all the mess I wouldn't be who I am.

The image reads "I can do this. I have the strength and support of my family and beloved ones, and confidence in myself. No power in the 'verse can stop me."  It's a picture of a sign that hung over my desk in the fall of 2010 when I was away at teacher's college.

The Middle: Betrayal

Posted February 15, 2012

Trigger warning for depression, suicide, discussion of medical procedures. This is a long one, so I hope you're comfy.

Unfortunately, while the meeting the next day with my nurse went well, the resulting visit to an actual doctor did not. Julie, my awesome nurse, did a verbal test of sorts with me and determined that I needed to see my family doctor right away, something that's usually impossible to do back in my hometown. The waiting times for certain things are in months, so I was surprised when she said I had an appointment with him that evening. I suppose when you're as messed up as I was things move a bit more quickly. That night I went back to the health clinic and sat with my doctor, who had my chart and notes from Julie, including the test I had done. He asked me "What do you want me to do for you?"

I was stunned, no idea what to say. Something along the lines of "I don't know, help me not feel like this?" fell out of my mouth. I didn't know at all what I wanted, or needed, except to stop wanting to die or hurt my kid. In the end all he did was write me a prescription for Prozac and told me to get it filled at the pharmacy. Do you know what the side effects of Prozac are? If you don't, let me tell you:

  • insomia
  • loss of libido
  • suicide
  • drowsiness
  • anxiety

Fantastic! This was exactly what I needed; a drug that would make me sleep, maybe, if I wasn't too anxious (that was another great thing about ppd-extreme anxiety and panic around taking Gabe anywhere alone. What if he cried? I'm a terrible mother! What if I had to feed him? Gross! Boobs! FREAK OUT) and would turn me off from my husband even more! Also, suicide or at least suicidal ideation, which I had in spades. Perfect! Needless to say I never filled the prescription. My solution? Sleep more (and Gabe helped me out here by suddenly sleeping more too), get out of the house with friends, and when Gabe was 3 months old (and sleeping through the night!), go back to work at the call centre. Basically, run away. Avoidance is sometimes the best and worst strategy but it's all I'd had for a long time.

Sometime in there I had an IUD put in; it seemed like the best choice for lack of fuss and care. I couldn't afford one of the fancy hormonal ones but I figured a large peice of copper wire in my uterus would stop future pregnancies until we were ready. Yeah, that didn't go so well either. A year and a half into my supposed 4-5 year IUD, it failed. I was back at the university finishing my English degree, Ryan had left classes in order to be a stay at home dad and figure out if university was actually the right path for him, and money was seriously tight (and by seriously we weren't able to pay the rent for a couple of months that Spring).  It was The Worst Times, and now I was very unwantedly pregnant, and terrified. There was only one choice for me and that was to get an abortion.

Note how I say "For me". As with any and all decisions regarding my body, the decision is mine alone. I would never tell another person what to do with their own body, it's theirs. That's how being grown-ups works. You don't tell me what to do with my life and I wont tell you what to do with yours. Any and all comments to the contrary will be mocked and/or deleted.

So the Worst Times became the Even Worse Times-Ryan understood and accepted my decision though he didn't like it. I had the IUD removed by a, at first, very skeptical doctor at the hospital. I was only 5 weeks along but I knew, and the pregnancy test confirmed it. Then they did a test of their own and I distinctly remember him saying at his computer "Holy shit, she IS pregnant!" I only had a 1% change of becoming pregnant with that IUD in and because the IUD had been in there, there was a chance it was a tubal pregnancy which could rupture and damage or potentially kill me. There was a 50% chance removing the IUD would induce a miscarriage, and a 1/5 chance that sometime during the next few weeks I'd miscarry naturally. None of the above occured. Sadly, I had to wait another 5-6 weeks before getting the procedure done and in the meantime have an invasive vaginal ultrasound to confirm a tubal pregnancy (or not. It was not.) Abortion cost is covered by healthcare in Ontario, but in my hometown the doctor who did it was only available once a month and came in from out of town. The nearest place was 4 hours on the Greyhound away, or 9-10 hours to a private clinic. The pill form wasn't available either, so I had to wait. That was almost The Worst Part of all of this-waiting.

During the waiting I barely ate. I HATED my body, hated it for betraying me, hated being pregnant, hated having to wait, knowing every moment I did another human was growing inside me, stealing my nutrients, making me sick and tired, distracting me from my school work and driving a deep wedge between me and the man I loved more than breathing. My very good friend Amanda took this as an opportunity to introduce me to the Fat o'Sphere, via Kate Harding's often hilarious blog. It was a distraction I sorely needed, and it offered me a different way of thinking, a way out of the hate. My personal journal from this time is sprinkled with quotes and links to articles from all over the 'Sphere! I didn't start this blog until a year or two later, but the seeds were sown in those dark days. I came to fat acceptance from a very sideways path but here I am.

The waiting-it was so hard. I became conflicted but Ry and I were against the idea of adoption; we couldn't live with ourselves knowing that our child was out there in the world somewhere, maybe ok, maybe being hurt or mistreated. And I was too scared after what happened with Gabe to go through labour, delivery and then the mental hoops again, nevermind our dire financial straits. Ryan still wasn't completely on board with everything but he was as supportive as he could be. My sister asked me, in a long drawn out way, "Can't you just be strong enough?" and that sincerely broke me. No, no I couldn't. I can now, I hope, but not then. That pregnancy wasn't just unplanned, it was completely unwanted. Eventually I reached acceptance and at the end of March in 2008 I went down to the hospital, by myself. The protestors were there, just like every Saturday, and this time they didn't have their dead baby sign. A week or two earlier I'd taken it and stuffed it under a dumpster while visiting my sick grandpa.

I dont' know what it's like for other women but my abortion HURT. It fucking hurt. It hurt more than back labour with Gabe, and that's saying something. I'm surprised I didn't break the nurses hand (yes I was awake though now I wished I hadn't been but I don't think that was an option). It was loud and painful and when it was over I was completely alone. The doctor disappeared. The nurse just left me on the table, feet in stirrups and paper gown. That was The Worst, worse than the waiting, the doubts, the hurting my husband, everything else. I was in pain, alone. It only lasted for less than a minute but it was awful.

Mentally it's taken me a long time to get off that table. Sometimes I'm still there, but I have no regrets, and I'm not sorry.

Part 3 on Friday.

 

The Beginning: Defeat

Posted February 15, 2012

Trigger warning for body hate, depression, suicide

I've mentioned not a few times on here the Gabe's labour and delivery was long and difficult, and that afterwards I feel deeply into post partum depression. I'm not sure if I've ever detailed how deep I went, or why. In order for this not to turn into a novel (which it may in the future anyway, who knows?), I'll try to be brief. For Gabe I have very high expectations of what labour and delivery were going to be like; all natural, empowered, me loving my woman self, giving birth proudly and strongly to the life I had carried for nearly 10 months. It was going to be awesome. I read everything I could about natural labour, had a kick ass doula lined up that I knew well and trusted, Ryan was ready to be my rock and my family supported my decisions. And then everything other than that happened.

Well, not everything; I still had my kick ass doula and Ryan and the support of my family but in the end, I felt like my body had let me down. 23 hours of back breaking posterior labour, drugs and a c-section left me defeated, weakened in a way I had never been before. I spent the first 2 days after Gabe's birth laying in the hospital bed, unable to get up or move around, not seeing him or hardly anyone else for hours at a time. That's probably good because I was too tired to be good company and too weak to take care of Gabe. Seeing Ryan playing with Gabe for the first time, as much as you can play with a newborn, broke my heart and made me jealous. I didn't feel hardly anything for Gabe and here was Ryan, all super dad already with the changing diapers and holding him because I couldn't. I finally got to go home I think the afternoon of the third day in the hospital and the next six weeks or so are a blur.

My surgery HURT; for the first week I could barely stand up straight. I remember getting out of bed at night to go feed the baby and unfolding from rest to stand was agony. Breast feeding was the last thing I was going to give up on so I did it, which was probably a stupid thing now that I think of it. But, I had screwed up everything else, so I wasn't going to let THIS go. My mom came by every day to make sure I could get a shower, eat whatever she made me (I had no interest in food) and keep the house up. She was my saviour while Ryan was at work. Still, I was exhausted. Like nearly all newborns, Gabe didn't sleep at first so neither did I. I didn't sleep while he slept, which was also stupid, and it slowly drove me crazy. Between all of this and my inability to bond with Gabe, I started having suicidal thoughts, and thoughts about hurting Gabe. I was so tired. I just wanted to sleep. What kind of mom was I who didn't love her kid? What kind of mom was I to want to abandon her kid through death? Or hurt him? I was a terrible mom. I should just slit my wrists in the bathtub while he's napping before Ryan gets home and then it'll be better for everyone. Ryan can be super dad, Gabe will be taken care of and that will be that.

Through the haze I realized that these were Bad Thoughts, that I should tell someone, but I was afraid that if I told someone they'd take Gabe away or put me away and confirm Yeah Jen, you really ARE a bad mother! Finally one day Ryan came home from work. Gabe was asleep. I had walked in and out of the bathroom probably ten times in the time before he walked through the door. I must have had some kind of look on my face because Ryan asked "How was your day?" I shook my head and said "Ask me how I'm doing." So he did. Gods, I'm crying as i write this, it still hurts so much five years later. And I said "Not very well." and started to bawl. Ryan was very confused but as we lay on the bed together he was able to piece together what I'd been thinking, even though I didn't come out and say it. I couldn't. But he's a smart guy and while scared, got me on the phone with my nurse. That was the beginning.

Week 13: Fat or Pregnant?

Posted February 14, 2012

Trigger warning for weight loss and diet talk

Well, it's both. When I was expecting Gabe (called Gir at the time) I hadn't heard about fat acceptance yet. I was terrified of gaining SO MUCH WEIGHT because I was already fat. I wasn't concerned that being fat would make labour more difficult or anything, but I was afraid that the extra weight would make me ugly, unlovable and that it would never come off. At my heaviest I was about 205lbs. *facepalm* I know. At the time though, that was the worst thing ever, the heaviest I had ever been and I was SO HAPPY to be 'thin' again after Gabe was born. The idea of losing all those pounds, even if most of them were baby, extra blood, placenta, etc, and getting MY BODY back, was what I was looking forward too right after meeting him. I missed my body, it's ease of movement, my ability to shave my legs, paint my toenails, wear my old clothes! After nearly 10 months of change I was ready for things to all go back the way they had been.

And then I had a c-section, was knocked on my ass by the surgery for weeks, fell into a deep depression and only climbed out through the support of my awesome hubby and running from my feelings by going back to work. My size and how I looked was pretty far from my mind, though now I had a wicked scar to worry about as well as a few stubborn extra pounds that didn't go away. They've hung around the last 5 years, brought some friends, and now, despite moving into the second trimester, I still look pretty much the same.

We went to the pool on Saturday after my non-trip to the blood lab and I slipped on my rainbow butterflies tankini. Looking in the mirror I asked Ryan "Do I look fat or pregnant?" I don't know why I asked, it just sort of slipped out. He glanced over and continued to wrestle our bags into the locker. "I don't know; both?" And that's the thing; I am both. I'm pregnant and I'm fat. Being pregnant in these days is the one time women are allowed culturally to BE fat, to gain weight. It's ok, because it's not for US, it's for the baby. We're not supposed to be sexual now, we've fulfilled our sexual role, which is evidenced by the bigger belly and boobs, which are not for men anymore, but for the baby. It's safe to be fat now, it's ok to eat whatever I want whenever I want it because hey, eating for two! Silly cravings!

Except that this thinking is not ok. Women can be fat and not be pregnant. We can eat what we want, when we want it because we're grown ups in charge of our own bodies and habits. My body is mine no matter what is happening inside it, though with a wanted pregnancy, of course I'm doing what I can to ensure I'm growing a healthy baby. That part isn't entirely up to me though-there are many other factors at play.

Gotta run to work; more tomorrow.

Adele won how many Grammys?!

Posted February 12, 2012

So last night I tuned in for the first time to a whole Grammys'  award show (except for the parts where Chris Brown was on; then I changed the channel). Wow. That was pretty damn cool. And it was even better because a woman that I really admire and look up too won a basket of awards! Way to go, Adele!

I have a lot of respect for people who can put on a big show, singing AND dancing at the same time with the fireworks and other stuff; it's freakin' hard. Katy Perry did a routine where I thought for sure she was going to just mangle her singing but didn't (unless she was using back up tracks/lip synching), but to me, there's just something about a person, be it a man or a woman, who simply stands at the mic and commands the entire room with nothing but the sound of their voice, and maybe a piano. Celine Dion does it. KD Lang does it. Whitney Houston, gods rest her, did it. Aretha does it still, though her voice isn't what it used to be. Tony Bennet's still got it, as does Michael Buble. Adele's got it too and in spades. I hope she has a long and successful career and takes care of that gift she's been given and honed into some serious talent.  

I'm going to try and tune into the Grammys every year from now on because I really really enjoyed myself. Sometimes I need to unplug from all the serious shit going on in the world. I love music, played the clarinet for years, take great joy from singing, and the arts are something that need much more love than they get. As the guy who accepted the award for the Foo Fighters said: the human element of making music is what's most important. Singing into a microphone, learning to play an instrument, learning to do your craft, that's the most important thing for people to do. It's not about being perfect, it's not about what goes on in the computer, it's about what goes on in here (gestures to his head) and in here (gestures to his heart).

Bump Update

Posted February 11, 2012

Well, that whole morning sickness thing is still dogging me about half the time but other than that my energy is coming back. Today is go get blood taken day so I can check for things like Trisonomy 18 and make sure baby-to-be is putting him/herself together properly.  My ultrasound last Wednesday (last week) looked pretty good and we got to hear the heartbeat on Friday at the midwife's.  Have a great weekend!

Beauty and Strength

Posted February 7, 2012

Part of the Charge of the Goddess, one of the most widely used and easily recognizable pieces of written work in the Pagan community, reads as follows:

"Let My worship be in the heart that rejoices, for behold, all acts of love and pleasure are My rituals.

Let there be beauty and strength, power and compassion, honor and humility, mirth and reverence within you."

That's my favourite part of the whole thing, and it sprang to mind tonight while browing Youtube and stumbling upon the video below. I've never seen a full traditional Hawaiian hula dance before; like many here in North America, my knowlege of such things is limited to costume/theme parties and the Disney film Lilo and Stitch. What I see in this video is so much more, and so much better than what I know. It's authentic, alive and vibrant, much like the traditional dances of the pow-wow or other First Nations celebrations. It deserves to be seen and shared and not be used as a costume at Hallowe'en or an office party theme. 

Monstanto Makes You Fat

Posted February 6, 2012

On Monday this picture appeared on my Facebook wall, posted by an acquaintance. I have seen, and written about, similar sentiments before, but this one takes the whole damn cake, but it also led to a little lightbulb moment for me. 

There's a lot going on here explicitly and implicitly, and this is my take; Mega corporations like Monsanto are bad for us. GMOs, which Monsanto are infamous for developing, are therefore also bad for us. The pinnacle of human achievement is a man with an automatic gun and a bloody shovel (agriculture? peasant revolution? Beating down peasants? Herding the fat man forward? You be the judge). Thanks to things like McDonalds/fast food and companies like Monsanto, humans have passed our peak and become fat, with all it's awful associations. The next step down the road is mindless consumption, shown as the pig.

I left the following comment on both my friend's wall and on my own when I reposted the image: "I'm really sick of 'progressive' folks on the left (and just assholes on the right) using fat people as a scapegoat for the world's ills. Fat people are fat for a variety of reasons, not just because of poor diet and/or lack of excersise. Monsanto is evil; equating fat people with Monsanto makes fat people the enemy. I say no thanks to that thinking and think we can do better than stereotypes." A friend reposted it with my comment and added: Really. Knock it the fuck off. Your bigotry (hell yes, I went there) is unbecoming. 

Under her post the conversation got heated as a mutual acquaintence said she didn't see this picture as a statment about fat people per say but more as a commentary on how Monsanto is turning us into mindless consumers unable to care for ourselves by robbing us of the ability to grow our own food, and making us eat that which we don't even know is safe. I was agog she didn't think this was about fat people; as a fat acceptance advocate I immediately focused on this as yet another image of fat people being badly treated in the media, that people who are that big are being used as a symbol of what GMOs and fast food do to people is hateful, misleading and wrong. As a scientist, she took the image very differently, focusing on what she knew about Monsanto and their despicable practises.


When I was taking English in university I was introduced to the post-modernist way of thinking and reading; if I read a text and see something in there, it's there (and I can prove it in a 1500 word essay!). What characters wear (red shirt vs. white shirt) for example, says something about their motivations during a scene, or maybe if it's a theme, their personality. What seems obvious to me may not be to you because of our different upbringings, associations, experiences, etc. For me, the Monsanto picture is *obviously* a jab at fat people as well as the company. That she didn't immediately agree with me or understand that put me on the defensive, and things went downhill from there. I failed to keep an open mind. I failed to consider how she might be seeing things (other than to assininely tell her to check her privilege. *facepalm*).
Her perspective and experiences and mine are very different so it led to very different takes on the image. She agrees that the use of a fat person in the picture is wrong, but that's not the most important part of the image to her. Neither of us is WRONG mind you, just coming at something from very different places.


Sometimes, with fat acceptance or feminism or anti-globalization or occupy or any of the dozens of things I care deeply about, I need that reminder; the world is not made up of people who think like me and agree with me, and just because they DON'T doesn't make them an adversary, not until they actually show it. Jumping all over someone for having a different take on something doesn't help to have a conversation. Then again, the positions that I hold on many things are pretty rigid for a reason, and if someone *doesn't* agree with me, it's probably because of unexamined privilege and/or sheer ignorance and/or bigotry. You're antichoice? Homophobic? Misogynist? Racist? Violent? A fat hater? I'll tell you right where to go and how fast you can get there. People who hold those views don't want a conversation and I wont validate their opinions with giving them one. They're entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts (to paraphrase D.P. Moynihan). On the other hand, someone simply saying "I don't see that the way you see that" is not one of those people, and deserves better than an ill-thought out and snarky reply on Facebook. So my journey into maturity continues!

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